澳洲Australia property Too many gurus...who to listen to???? | S


在澳大利亚 I need some advice regarding a property purchase. Property - semi-detached house Bedrooms - 2 Condition - average needs internal reno to modernise Street - one of the best in suburb Location - excellent Close to schools - yes Transport - 50m The pool at of an IP needs to be resurfaced (or so the pool doctor says), the cost was estimated to be $10K ($10,000), after recoverying from my impresssion of a cat coughing up a fur ball, it just seems far too much. Its just a standard poo


I am currently in the process of building a portfolio and part of my research is to read books, listen to podcasts etc etc.

But now I am on the point of burnout....

Just when I think I have my mind made up about a strategy for my portfolio, ie, negative gearing......I read something that makes me freak out :confused: and think +cash flow is the way to go....

Ughhhh and then the internet.....so many gurus out there, telling you how "they" did it and why it is the system that works the best!!!! :eek:

So to put my mind at ease...

Can anyone recommend a particular guru, mentor, book, company that actually WORKS and isn't just a load of glossy spin?

And how realistic are these promises of quitting your job and living off your investments? It this a short term reality or a pipe dream? If you've done it I'd love to know....

Thank-you

Dan  

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I think you have to use all of the knowledge acquired in a way that best applies to your own personal situation. Many of the gurus and book authors don't tell you their entire story/background. Maybe they were lucky and first bought in Perth smack bang in the middle of the boom and that turbocharged their portfolio, maybe they had 300k in inheritance to kick-start things with that you never get told about etc.

It's easy to get analysis paralysis when doing too much reading and I have often suffered from the same thing - but you have to keep a perspective and just dive in there and learn by doing.

If you have a high personal income and can support multiple negatively-geared properties, then you probably stand to get better growth out of the longer term that way.

If your income is moderate/average then don't overcook it with too much negative gearing as you don't want to default when rates go up further, but probably slightly negatively geared where you are topping it up by an amount you can afford each month is a good thing and in a few years it should break even and turn into a positive one for you.

There would be nothing wrong with chucking in a positive one for shorter term cash flow advantages and also to help service any shortfalls on your negatively geared ones.

But whatever you do, always look for ones where you can create/add significant value (renovate, subdivide etc etc) and don't just "buy and hope". Also if you aren't going to live in it, then pick a city/area where high growth is expected, so you might have a chance of a bit of a lottery ticket on that one if the place booms - this is anyone's guess and even the gurus don't always get it right. But you have to be in it to win it. So don't think you will find the perfect answer, settle on a place that has a very good chance and just go with it. Maybe Gladstone will be the next Newman/Karrartha - maybe it won't. But probably better to buy there and take a chance than just buying in "any normal area" without research etc.

Buy something where you know it's a killer deal to begin with, because as all the gurus say, you do make your money at the purchase. So if its not "wow what a deal I can add heaps of value here and create value" I wouldn't touch it. Because it's also very easy to jump in too eager, buy the wrong property and be stuck with it for years until you can finally break even just to get back out of it.

My 0.02c.  

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To put it bluntly.

None.

Simple, they may give you some great info, but in the long run it's what you do and what you want to do.  

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Chalk up a first. :D

Lil and I agree. I read them all but do not accept a "guru".  

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You gotta find what works for you.
What works for others may not work for you, that's how it is.

To find out what works for you, you need to get experience.
To get experience, do what Sunfish just said.

Who to listen to?
I'd say this forum is a great place to be.
I joined here 8 years ago (another user name) and learned pretty much all of what I know from here and the experience gained from doing what is discussed here.
Started with next to nothing and could definately retire comfortably now, if that was my choice, but I'm just getting started.  

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recruit2 said: ↑
I think you have to use all of the knowledge acquired in a way that best applies to your own personal situation. Many of the gurus and book authors don't tell you their entire story/background.Click to expand...
I could not agree more! Kudos to you. :)

Each guru has done what works for them. You have to find what works for you. Make a start - buy one. See how that works and then buy another. You can change strategies mid-stream if you find something is not suiting your style or your personal circumstances change.

Ultimately, you need to become your own guru. ;)  

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read and listen

in a inquistive manner, digest and dispose

draw conclusion, which must be a cocktail of all.

Even on the most fundamental level, the application of general advice to specific issues and conditions will often end in tears.

ta
rolf  

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I have learned a lot from about 6 people in the past 30 years.

The most helpful were the ones who talk about the details of their own strategies with a take it or leave it attitude.

Case in point - Richard Farleigh. Very successful investor and now investing "angel" - tells how he did it and the reasoning behind it but doesn't have a program where he promises to make you rich.  

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It's in the doing that we become

Nice post Recruit.

IMO, there are no "gurus" unless you put them up on a pedestal and make them so of your own doing.

Read, listen, and network. You're in Melbourne. Come along to one of our monthly dinners. We just had this one:

http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63264

Applying knowledge is what gives you the (personal) wisdom to move forward and refine your own stratgey on how/what/why............so get out there and chalk up the first one as others have mentioned.

I use others more successful than me as role models and emulate only that part of their strategy or behaviours/paradigms that strikes a cord with my own core values and direction at that time. They are not gurus to my mind as I do not worship them. I take my own responsibility for my actions based upon all the information I gather from my own research endeavours and the published works of others

You need to become your own beacon of light........it's in the doing that we all become ;)  

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air_man said: ↑
I am currently in the process of building a portfolio and part of my research is to read books, listen to podcasts etc etc.

But now I am on the point of burnout....

Take a break and read/listen to something more light and reflect on all the info you have taken in

Just when I think I have my mind made up about a strategy for my portfolio, ie, negative gearing......I read something that makes me freak out :confused: and think +cash flow is the way to go....

I would think this would come down to individuals personal fin circumstances. If high wage and no deductions -neg gearing would probably be the way to go. If low income or no need for tas deductions then +pos gearing to maximise profit off the bat.

Ughhhh and then the internet.....so many gurus out there, telling you how "they" did it and why it is the system that works the best!!!! :eek:

So to put my mind at ease...

Can anyone recommend a particular guru, mentor, book, company that actually WORKS and isn't just a load of glossy spin?

Be your own guru, take some action with what you know. Suddenly when you have some personal experience you'll start finding what works for you and what does not.

And how realistic are these promises of quitting your job and living off your investments? It this a short term reality or a pipe dream? If you've done it I'd love to know....

In my opinion there is no living off your investments in the short term, you may get away on working full time ON your investments, but it will mostly be hard yakka taking that path.

Thank-you

DanClick to expand...
In our personal experience it has been one small step at a time.

1. Pay off all non-deductible debt.
2. Setup finances/accounts for easy money maintenance
3. Setup IP 1
4. Setup IP 2
5. Still a lot of stuff to achieve and learn. Definitely won't be a Donald Trump over night. No quitting J.O.B anytime soon either, but as we grow, take action and learn more options open up taking us in the right direction.  

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Jonril said: ↑
In our personal experience it has been one small step at a time.

1. Pay off all non-deductible debt..Click to expand...
For people who bought their PPOR first, this would imply you have to pay off your PPOR before investing. It should be recognised that this is a very conservative way of investing, and while safe, the opportunity cost is all the experience and returns you could have made in investments while paying off the PPOR.

Depending on personal circumstances, reduction of deductible debt may not be the first priority, especially as it can be done faster in the future once you have some investments via debt recycling.  

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Hi air man

We started off buying a manual and then went to a "bootcamp". After that there were three, more advanced courses. It cost a LOT and the last "advanced" course had very little content.

I must admit, I am a bit torn though. Even though we did pay out a LOT of money for the manual and the courses, we are now in a position where both Karen & I operate our real estate vendor finance business full time and continue to build our portfolio.

Looking back on it now, I'd probably buy the specialist manual we bought initially but I think the rest could be done by combining all the advice above. Of course, vendor finance is a specialist area and, if that's not your niche, the library and local bookstore will probably work just as well ;-)

Cheers, Paul  

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alexlee said: ↑
For people who bought their PPOR first, this would imply you have to pay off your PPOR before investing. It should be recognised that this is a very conservative way of investing, and while safe, the opportunity cost is all the experience and returns you could have made in investments while paying off the PPOR.

Depending on personal circumstances, reduction of deductible debt may not be the first priority, especially as it can be done faster in the future once you have some investments via debt recycling.Click to expand...
That's true. I would consider myself conservative (my better half on the other hand is more practical and willing to take an educated risk, hopefully that's a good balance ;P ) It is probably true if I/we pushed our investing muscles harder we could have achieved more by this stage, but that's life I guess.

As it happens we have fallen into our current IP's by chance.

My wife had PPOR and was concentrating on paying it off for here own peace of mind before we met. Her PPOR became our PPOR and it wasn't hard to knock the nail on the head and finish off the Mortgage.

My PPOR became our IP 1 and is currently neutrally geared.

We took out a Pre approval for a future larger home just in case something came up on the market.

~Dream house came up at the right price, we made offer it got accepted, we umed and arghed about moving (and getting a new non deductible mortgage) Decided we can wait and suddenly we had IP2 (which is -neg geared)

Currently we are working on filling up the offset account with no plans for IP3 until we have digested our recent purchase.

Not exactly pushing the envelope with a guru stratergy or making huge gains, but we are currently happy with our progress.  

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air_man said: ↑
I am currently in the process of building a portfolio and part of my research is to read books, listen to podcasts etc etc.

But now I am on the point of burnout....

Just when I think I have my mind made up about a strategy for my portfolio, ie, negative gearing......I read something that makes me freak out :confused: and think +cash flow is the way to go....

Ughhhh and then the internet.....so many gurus out there, telling you how "they" did it and why it is the system that works the best!!!! :eek:

So to put my mind at ease...

Can anyone recommend a particular guru, mentor, book, company that actually WORKS and isn't just a load of glossy spin?

And how realistic are these promises of quitting your job and living off your investments? It this a short term reality or a pipe dream? If you've done it I'd love to know....

Thank-you

DanClick to expand...
Hi Dan
I can relate to you...

We accidently got into developing property ( overseas ) coz' my dad chanced upon a cheap plot. he did most of the leg work (permissions,clearance etc)and i financed 80% of the project.
it was more of a trial and error (am sure we lost some $ coz of that) but somethings you get to learn when u do things ..books can't teach you.
as a result after 15 months of start/stop construction work + endless red tape of the Govt councils :mad:.....we(my dad and I) now own the apt building (4 flats) outright and its giving 3 rental passive income streams for my parents while they r living in one of the flats.

Will I do it again ? Seeing the work and time involved..the answer would be NO

My learning sources here in Aus are Books, SS Forums,API ,Network with other investors...

best wishes
K  

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air_man said: ↑
Can anyone recommend a particular guru, mentor, book, company that actually WORKS and isn't just a load of glossy spin?Click to expand...
I think Jan Somer's books are very down to earth, and the strategy of buying and holding residential property works over time. Note she says it isn't a get rich strategy.

air_man said: ↑
And how realistic are these promises of quitting your job and living off your investments? It this a short term reality or a pipe dream? If you've done it I'd love to know....

Thank-you

DanClick to expand...
Jan's strategy is realistic. Take away the short term reality though - its more like a 15-20 yr strategy depending on your income etc etc.

Regards Jason.  

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All of them and put together your own action plan as a result of learning from all that wonderful collective knowledge that is out there.  

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sorry guys but in my opinion this is complete b**llshit.

Yeah yeah yeah take the best from everyone,
take the best from different viewpoints and apply it to your own circumstances.

God this sounds like the 'old fashioned' crap that i used to hear during more prosperous and certain times in recent history:
do you remember quotes such as 'just byte off as much as possible and then chew like crazy', or 'you only succeed when you dream big, dream big, action big'.
yaaah diee yaahee dieee yahaa.

My opinion, try to learn a method,
if you find that you are being swayed by the alternatives, then probably you havent found the right strategy for you (either that or i am sorry to say, but maybe you dont have the right temperment to invest full stop).

Its a bit like the movie the matrix: you will know when you have found the right method, you will test it, sometimes the market will test you, but at the end of the day, you know you are one with the method.

There is not one method that is the right method.

Its the right combination of the right person with the right method that matters
.

My investment journey is continuing like everyone elses, except that i have found the right method for me, over time i will refine and improve it.
But i have the basics in place.
I feel no need to change it, alter the course, change philosophies, change strategies or whatever.
I have arrived at my investment home and i am happy.  

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air_man said: ↑
Just when I think I have my mind made up about a strategy for my portfolio, ie, negative gearing......I read something that makes me freak out :confused: and think +cash flow is the way to go....Click to expand...
I think a lot of people focus on -ve gear, +ve cash flow, +ve gear, etc, when I believe these are a result of your property purchase, not the strategy. The strategy is buy/hold, reno/hold, reno/sell, develop/hold, develop/sell, etc.

eg, one could be a reno/hold'er and after the reno, the property could be +ve or -ve cashflow/geared. Doesn't change that the original strategy is reno and hold.

Only thing is that when working out the numbers for any particular deal, the tax treatment forms part of the numbers! A reno/hold project that is -ve geared after the reno may still fit the original goal and purpose of the reno/hold.

air_man, FWIW, don't focus on this aspect. Focus on what sort of property investing strategy appeals to you. Think of your strengths and play to them.

You might be a great negotiator - buy blue-chip at reduced prices; handy with tools - do your own renos; a team leader or architect visionary - development might be your thing.

IMO, +ve cash flow vs. -ve gearing are not strategies in themselves.  

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The question you should be asking is where do you want to be financially in 1,5 and 10 years? Sounds like a cliche or some bad HR questionnaire, but with the answer to this, will come the action plan.

The action plan will vary over time as you employ different strategies and I am sure some of those proposed by these guru's would be involved (or a variant of those). Which ones to employ will also depend on your knowledge level, risk appetitie, economic means etc. I would only say that you need to be educated in these differing tactics, whether that is done yourself or through financial planning advice or both.

To be honest, anything is possible. There will be a way to achieve these results, but there will be risks.  

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Intrinsic_Value said: ↑
sorry guys but in my opinion this is complete b**llshit.


There is not one method that is the right method.

Its the right combination of the right person with the right method that matters
.Click to expand...
Isn't this basically what everybody has been saying already :confused:  

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