澳洲Australia property Property in 1910 | Sydney


在澳大利亚 I need some advice regarding a property purchase. Property - semi-detached house Bedrooms - 2 Condition - average needs internal reno to modernise Street - one of the best in suburb Location - excellent Close to schools - yes Transport - 50m The pool at of an IP needs to be resurfaced (or so the pool doctor says), the cost was estimated to be $10K ($10,000), after recoverying from my impresssion of a cat coughing up a fur ball, it just seems far too much. Its just a standard poo


The ABS has published a Yearbook almost every year since 1908.....

Here's some snippets from the 1910 Yearbook regarding property.


2. New South Wales.—Under the Crown Lands Act 1884 lands not exceeding in the
aggregate 200,000 acres for the whole State may be sold by auction during any one year.
The sales are notified in the Gazette not less than one month before the day of sale. The
upset prices may not be less than £8 an acre for town lands ; £2 10s. for suburban lands;
and other lands fifteen shillings. Town lands may not be sold in areas exceeding half-an-acre
; suburban lands in areas exceeding twenty acres ; and country lands in areas exceeding
640 acres. A deposit of 25 per cent, on the purchase-money must be paid at the sale,
and the remainder within three months.

3. Victoria.—Lands specially classed for sale by auction, and any land in any
city, town, or borough, may be sold by auction in fee simple, not exceeding 100,000
acres in any one year, at an upset price of Si an acre, or at any higher price
determined.

4. Queensland.—The Governor may proclaim any Crown lands to be sold by auction.
Town or suburban lots must be offered as nearly as possible according to the following
scale:—Town lands in allotments of from one rood to one acre, at an upset price of £8
per acre ; suburban lands, if within one mile from town lands, in lots of from one to
five acres, and if over one mile from town lands, in lots of from one to ten acres, the
upset price being £2 per acre. In respect of country lands, the maximum area which may
be sold by auction in any one year is 500,000 acres, and the upset price is fixed at £1
an acre for lands classed as agricultural, and not less than ten shillings per acre in the
case of other lands.


Queensland - The average area of agricultural farms selected during the year 1908 was 378 acres
/at an average price of 16s. 7d. per acre ;

WA - (i.) Residential Conditional Purchase. Under this form of tenure any person over
the age of sixteen years may select from a minimum area of 100 acres to a maximum of
1000 acres in any part of the State. The usual price of the land is ten shillings an acre,
payable in twenty years by half-yearly instalments, or sooner, at the occupier's option.
Applications

(vi.) Free Homestead Farms. Every person who is not already the holder of more
than 100 acres of land within the State, and being the head of a family, or a male of
sixteen years of age and upwards, may select an area of from 10 to 160 acres as a free
homestead farm, on lands declared open for such selection within the South-West,
Central, or Eucla Divisions, not being within a goldfield. The application must he
accompanied by a statutory declaration with a one-shilling duty stamp and a fee of twenty
shillings; half the cost of survey must be paid in two instalments of thirty shillings
each, the first instalment with the application and the second within twelve months.
Upon approval of the application an occupation certificate for seven years is issued ; the
selector must take personal possession of the land within six months from the date of
such certificate, and must reside thereon for at least six months in each of the first five
years of the term, but residence on rural land held by the same person within twenty
miles of the free homestead farm is sufficient compliance with the above residence condition.
Residence of the holder's wife, parent, or child over sixteen years of age, may
be accepted at the Minister's discretion. Pour shillings per acre must be spent in
prescribed improvements during the first two years; a further six shillings per acre
during the next three years ; and an additional four shillings per acre during the last two
years. Not more than £30 of the amount spent on a habitable house will be allowed
towards the total amount of fourteen shillings per acre required to be expended upon
improvements. Half of the land must be fenced during the first five years, and the
whole must be enclosed with a great and small stock-proof fence by the end of the term
of seven years. Half the value of a sheep and cattle-proof exterior fence, and two-thirds
of the value of a rabbit or dog-proof exterior fence will be allowed towards the amount
required to be spent upon improvements after the fourth year of the term. A Crown
grant will be issued upon compliance with all the conditions and upon payment of a fee
of thirty shillings at the expiration of the term of seven years, but may be issued earlier
if the holder has completed twelve months' residence, has made all the required improvements,
and pays the sum of five shillings per acre for the land.Click to expand...
In 1908 it looks like land in the cities was around £1 for a quarter acre block, and around £30 to build a homestead sized house and farms cost 16 shillings per acre.

There's a huge amount of information there. I'd be interested to see what others can find in them.  

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WA - (i.) Residential Conditional Purchase. Under this form of tenure any person over
the age of sixteen years may select from a minimum area of 100 acres to a maximum of
1000 acres in any part of the State. The usual price of the land is ten shillings an acre,
payable in twenty years by half-yearly instalments
, or sooner, at the occupier's option.
ApplicationsClick to expand...
Is it too late for me to call on this now? :p  

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These are actual sold prices for farm land in my area since 1912 when the quarter million acre farm owned by the AAC, Australian agricultural company was resumed for closer settlement.


1912, 5 pound 14 per acre. So that's,.....

1912, $28.20/hectare.
1927, $19.28/hectare.
1943, $32.73/hectare.
1965, $207.48/hectare.
1975, $323.57/hectare.
1980, $867.00/hectare.
1997, $2000.00/hectare.

This land would sell for $6,000/hectare easily now, but a recent sale was at $7,500. I'd think this will be a new benchmark, as prices rarely drop and especially now with China and the Middle East and elsewhere sniffing around for farm land. This is purely agricultural land values with no real estate value at all. It would be bought by a farmer, not real estate investor.

Interestingly, grain and stock prices have not risen at anywhere near the land price appreciation. Rural commodity prices have only risen marginally. The land price gains are almost entirely from production and efficiency gains.

Wheat today is worth 20 cents per kilo, and it was not much different in 1970, which was not much different to 1950.


See ya's.  

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keithj said: ↑
In 1908 it looks like land in the cities was around £1 for a quarter acre block, and around £30 to build a homestead sized houseClick to expand...

The suburb we live in, about 6km from the CBD, was developed in 1914.

------

Average blocks sold for 28 pound each. Purchaser's were required to pay 1 pound deposit, and 1 pound per month thereafter, no interest payable !!


They now sell as a vacant block for 2.5m


$ 56 up to 2.5m in 96 years. That's an average annual compound growth rate of 11.80% pa

------

The prime big blocks sold for 36 pound each. Purchaser's were required to pay 2 pounds deposit, and 1 pound per month thereafter, no interest payable !!


They now sell as a vacant block for 4.0m


$ 72 up to 4.0m in 96 years. That's an average annual compound growth rate of 12.05% pa  

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Dazz said: ↑
The suburb we live in, about 6km from the CBD, was developed in 1914.

------

Average blocks sold for 28 pound each. Purchaser's were required to pay 1 pound deposit, and 1 pound per month thereafter, no interest payable !!Click to expand...
In 1914 the Great War was starting. In the next 4 years hundreds of thousands of the country's youth would be dead. Twenty five years later the country plunged into the Great Depression. How good would the young men who survived the war feel, being wiped out financially?

Thirty years after that property was offered we were at risk of being over-run by the Japanese and again the cream of our youth was being slaughtered on the battlefields.

'Tis OK saying, now, that your Grandparents should have bought and held. That's an unfair call. I reckon I would have been demoralised. I know you are built of tough stuff Dazz but 49% of people are below average.  

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Sunfish said: ↑
'Tis OK saying, now, that your Grandparents should have bought and held. That's an unfair call.Click to expand...
You misunderstand me Thommo. I made no such comment about any person.

Simply stating data, and showing that decent property, held for the long term, averaged around 12% pa growth. Nothing stellar, plenty of ups and downs, but averaged 12%. Compounding starts to weave it's magic after that length of time.

I wish my grandparents had of bought something decent.....alas, the publican and the tobacconist consistently siphoned off any inheritance that was forthcoming. Not a cracker there.  

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Dazz said: ↑
The suburb we live in, about 6km from the CBD, was developed in 1914.

------

Average blocks sold for 28 pound each. Purchaser's were required to pay 1 pound deposit, and 1 pound per month thereafter, no interest payable !!


They now sell as a vacant block for 2.5m


$ 56 up to 2.5m in 96 years. That's an average annual compound growth rate of 11.80% pa

------

The prime big blocks sold for 36 pound each. Purchaser's were required to pay 2 pounds deposit, and 1 pound per month thereafter, no interest payable !!


They now sell as a vacant block for 4.0m


$ 72 up to 4.0m in 96 years. That's an average annual compound growth rate of 12.05% paClick to expand...
looks like a bubble forming there, price to average aus income out of wack, tracking way above the mean affordability index, easy for u to pick a small sample of time to make suckers believe property always goes up, 98 years is nothing in the big picture, 200 years ago property was a necessity now it is just ponzi scheme of speculation, dazz u should sell now and then buy back in a couple of years for 50% of the price.  

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Dazz said: ↑
You misunderstand me Thommo. I made no such comment about any person.Click to expand...
I know that Dazz. :)

I was just trying to show that the 12% is highly variable and that for 30 yrs the results were probably pith poor, or at least that people had other things on their mind. Weren't solders six bob a day heros back then? That would make the pound/mth affordable though.

I'm not anti-property and believe that eventually, you must own your own place. Some here are very good at investing too (yourself included). But I'm not. I seem to buy for the wrong reasons and I believe this is also the wrong time. (Refer "variable" above) When I was young the banking system was wrong. Those of you who have enjoyed the good times, accept that for a while now it was the right idea at the right time. Is it repeatable? That is the ultimate test of an investment strategy.  

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Sunfish said: ↑
I know that Dazz. :)

I was just trying to show that the 12% is highly variable and that for 30 yrs the results were probably pith poor, or at least that people had other things on their mind.Click to expand...
Fair enough. I asked my father if he ever looked at this suburb to buy in way back when. He laughed and said "not a chance".

Apparently they were trying to buy a place in the early 60's, and their absolute top budget figure was 8,000 pounds. This was able to buy them a 3x1 B/T house in Morley. Houses in this suburb averaged 35,000 pounds at the time.  

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Showed these figures to my grandparents; they recounted the time they were offered a half acre block of land in Morley for free and turned it down because "who'd ever want to live all the way out there?!". They live in a similar area now. :rolleyes:

For those not from Perth - Morley is about 10 mins from the City and has one of WA's biggest shopping centre complexes.  

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dtraeger2k said: ↑
Showed these figures to my grandparents; they recounted the time they were offered a half acre block of land in Morley for free and turned it down because "who'd ever want to live all the way out there?!".Click to expand...
Indeed, it was the middle of nowhere.

My Nanna's father owned all of Morley and ran cows on it. When he died in the 30's, it was bequeathed to my Nanna. She was pretty switched on, but her husband convinced her to sell - cos it was too far out - and buy a shop up in Mundaring instead.....which is further away ?? :confused:

Needless to say, they lived OK for a while, but it all went, there is nothing left. The farm would be worth billions now.

If in a relationship, where one is property savvy and one is a doofus, all I can say is, beware of doofi.  

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Yep, my husband and his family are doofi. they and 3 other neighbours were offered part of a laneway each in Ashfield for free as the council didn't want to look after it any more. They all said no, their blocks were big enough already. It was about 400sqm each.  

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Has anyone ever thought about the danger of extrapolating average annual rates to predict history in a country that is relatively "new". 100 years ago when land was not at all scarce and certainly not subject to much speculation(not sure what the pop. was but I bet it was pretty low). There is obviously going to be a pretty low base.

In the fifties, they were giving land away in certain areas. Even if bought at a token price of $100 , some of these blocks would have increased 100% per annum over the last 60 years. Will that also continue?

Seriously, one would have to be in dreamland to expect 12% pa growth consistently going forward.

Better to gauge the average expected long term return from other countries.  

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Value Emperor said: ↑
Seriously, one would have to be in dreamland to expect 12% pa growth consistently going forward.Click to expand...
I must be in dreamland. It's great. I'm living the dream...and lovin' it. Cheers. :)  

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Sunfish said: ↑
Those of you who have enjoyed the good times, accept that for a while now it was the right idea at the right time. Is it repeatable? That is the ultimate test of an investment strategy.Click to expand...
This raises some really interesting thoughts and ideas. For me, I can't see my current approach of simply picking units that are priced between median and 20% below in a good suburb that's due a rise working forever. I think the price per unit will make the risk unacceptable. But what to do? I had previously considered letting the IPs run for a decade or so and then to start drawing down the equity to buy yield oriented shares, but again, gotta manage that risk. So now I've tried buying and renovating a good block of units, and that has worked out OK.

But where to next? That's the question. There's lots of options, I guess it's a matter of due diligence and risk management...  

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